Useless Canadian Grain companies

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Useless Canadian Grain companies

Nov 2, 2017 | 06:34 61 The only complaint from here is that we should always have had marketing freedom. Reply With Quote
SASKFARMER3's Avatar Nov 2, 2017 | 06:51 62 We wanted the freedom to market our grain and if it would of been done right the first time we could of had both competing the problem was farmers need cash and can't wait years to get paid. Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2017 | 07:13 63 Maybe people can't see the parallels between the system we had and the system we have today....


The result is the same.

No one liked waiting for their final payment is no different than waiting for grain cos to take delivery....

Now they just cherry pick the delivery to make it harder....



13 protein isn't good enough....now they need 14.5...
Last edited by bucket; Nov 2, 2017 at 07:16.
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farmaholic's Avatar Nov 2, 2017 | 07:35 64 In a way, the only thing that changed was your Master! Other than being able to move as much as you want (kind of when you want) and getting paid for all of it at once and being able to sell to absolutely anyone you want where you want..... the rest has a lot to be desired!

Have any efficiencies trickled down to the Producer? Rail hasn't seemed to changed much. And now handling is more than just handling charges now.... margins in grade and price spreads are the new game so I would say it's gotten worse in that department.

Maybe we don't need to know what true sales values and volumes are out of export ports.... it's none of our business, but our information is their business!?!?!?! Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2017 | 07:52 65 We talk like we are the ones who get shafted all the time. But if a grainco is screwing over farmers do you think they are gonna keep buying grain from them? Elevators can't be moved to a new location if you run out of customers. Any issues we've had with elevators have been worked out fairly well. Never 100% to what you would like but close enough that I'm happy with the end result.

Now

Kinger's tips for selling your grain.

Key part of selling your grain is setting the right expectations for the deal. Protein, moisture, grade, discounts etc. Then if your protein comes in low or moisture too high you know what is going to happen.

If you don't set those expectations and these things happen is when things get costly.

This is all more so related to wheat but a good thing to keep in mind on canola and soybeans too. Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2017 | 07:57 66 No kinger the elevator can move they just don't buy grains everywhere they used to we have to kiss their asses what's our other option? You better not let the boys find out which company your working for.
Some of us big boys start boycotting an elevator and it's fkd. Problem is we don't know the power we have. Reply With Quote
SASKFARMER3's Avatar Nov 2, 2017 | 08:03 67 Prime example is what are farmers growing.

More and more are saying piss on the useless grade games with Wheat switch to two crops Oats or Barley and Canola and peas.

Malt had been destroyed with useless game playing and its to the point most are giving up on it as well.

to all the genius who want canola to be oil content go F#$K% your self it to will be like Wheat and Barley.

Give them a inch they take a mile. Reply With Quote
farmaholic's Avatar Nov 2, 2017 | 08:06 68
Quote Originally Posted by the big wheel View Post
No kinger the elevator can move they just don't buy grains everywhere they used to we have to kiss their asses what's our other option? You better not let the boys find out which company your working for.
Some of us big boys start boycotting an elevator and it's fkd. Problem is we don't know the power we have.
Two very good points..... exactly, explain the option to some people who have to travel miles for just one delivery point. Some are lucky and have many within reasonable distance.

Secondly, the power thing.... just wait, if we could ever get organized. How the fuck the group holding the gold let themselves get into this position is beyond me. Reply With Quote
blackpowder's Avatar Nov 2, 2017 | 08:21 69 With Braveheart. We must be the only wheat growers on earth. Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2017 | 08:56 70 Make that three with us. Reply With Quote
blackpowder's Avatar Nov 2, 2017 | 09:27 71 Flattered. But the second sentence was my poorly written attempt at sarcasm. To me some sound as if they must be the only ones in the world with those problems. Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2017 | 09:36 72 What farmers need is some sort of coop that they own. That way with they're own company they can retain the profits instead of it going to corporate shareholders.

That would be great.

Oh and BTW every market analyst knows its true, farmers don't market anything. The grain market was never set up for farmers, it is for grain companies. Reality check time of just how unimportant you are in the whole market scheme.
Last edited by tweety; Nov 2, 2017 at 09:40.
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fjlip's Avatar Nov 2, 2017 | 09:55 73
Quote Originally Posted by tweety View Post
What farmers need is some sort of coop that they own. That way with they're own company they can retain the profits instead of it going to corporate shareholders.

That would be great.

Oh and BTW every market analyst knows its true, farmers don't market anything. The grain market was never set up for farmers, it is for grain companies. Reality check time of just how unimportant you are in the whole market scheme.
Peasants to feed the billionaires... Reply With Quote
farmaholic's Avatar Nov 2, 2017 | 11:31 74
Quote Originally Posted by tweety View Post
What farmers need is some sort of coop that they own. That way with they're own company they can retain the profits instead of it going to corporate shareholders.

That would be great.

Oh and BTW every market analyst knows its true, farmers don't market anything. The grain market was never set up for farmers, it is for grain companies. Reality check time of just how unimportant you are in the whole market scheme.
If every non-subsistence farmer wwouldn'tgrow a crop you'd find out just how fucking important they are in the scheme of things....you bet, reality check time. Ya I know, dream on! Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2017 | 14:29 75 Grain markets arn't some secret society you have to get into to use.

In the US roughly 70% of farmers are using some kind of grain marketing tool on there contracts.

In Canadian that number is under 1%.

Most graincos or brokers offer options or other tools that anyone can use.

Lots of brokers and graincos have info nights where you can learn about these things and start trying to use them. Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2017 | 14:38 76 For two commodities like corn and soybeans that don't have eight different classes and protein spreads to worry about .....you are right using futures for soybeans and corn probably makes sense....


Fora thinly traded commodity like canola and now no wheat durum or barley markets in Canada it's not the case. ....even American farmers talk about mpls as one to stay away from....

Now start talking about peas lentils flax and a commodity exchange. .....where are they? Peas and flax disappeared what 20 years ago.....


It's all noise..... Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2017 | 15:07 77 Yeah crops that don't have exchanges you can't do anything with.

If your worried about how thinly traded certain ones are. Like Minneapolis Wheat. Certain brokers offer guaranteed liquidity in there options. It will cost more but they will take the risk if they can't find someone to make the other side of your trade.

I wish there was exchanges for more commodities.

Flax 1.1 million acres
Canola 22.8 million acres

I understand why though. Reply With Quote
farmaholic's Avatar Nov 2, 2017 | 15:24 78
Quote Originally Posted by Kinger View Post
Most graincos or brokers offer options or other tools that anyone can use.

Lots of brokers and graincos have info nights where you can learn about these things and start trying to use them.
....No Thank You. To me, if the GrainCo is encouraging you to sell your grain if you have the ability to hold it(not worried about storage risk or don't need cash flow) and take a futures position or buy options, that is self serving! Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2017 | 15:32 79 Why not a contract signed in February for September delivery with protein spreads. ....

And with a guaranteed delivery....

Geez why think a grain Co would take the risk.....since my risk is gone once in the hopper. .... Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2017 | 15:39 80
Quote Originally Posted by farmaholic View Post
....No Thank You. To me, if the GrainCo is encouraging you to sell your grain if you have the ability to hold it(not worried about storage risk or don't need cash flow) and take a futures position or buy options, that is self serving!
How?

Yeah they make some money from selling the option. So does a broker. Grainco's i've found have been better to deal with for options. Cost is very similar between them both.

Why shouldn't they offer them? It's not hurting anyone and is another tool we can use to maximize profits/reduce risk. Reply With Quote
farmaholic's Avatar Nov 2, 2017 | 15:41 81
Quote Originally Posted by Kinger View Post
How?

Yeah they make some money from selling the option. So does a broker. Grainco's i've found have been better to deal with for options. Cost is very similar between them both.

Why shouldn't they offer them? It's not hurting anyone and is another tool we can use to maximize profits/reduce risk.
Ok then.... every farmer just blow out your grain and hope the prices go up.... Come on Kinger... Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2017 | 16:51 82 would a person not be wiser to do a futures only into Dec 18 carry the wheat forward use the carry and the protein spread back to a 13.5 contract spec to pay for the additional fertilizer bump needed to push that 18 crop protein up to where you have a ability to blend at those spreads? ( I did a quick napkin math and I think .90 some cents a bushel in carry and protein from sf3's 12.5 to 13.5 contract spec, using the 60 cents stated for the spread as they vary from company to company ) As a little exercise if you have low protein wheat this year do your bushels multiple it by the spread and carry and take a look at how much n that would buy you to add to next years wheat crop it might surprise you)

Ive done well in the past carrying wheat , seems next years grade determinants are always way different than this years and blending seems to work best when you are not trying to flog the same stuff everyone in the country ( planet) is doing. this year low protein wheat is everywhere world wide . Only stuff that will find a home will be the stuff they need to blend lower quality up. As I had great protein last year I blended the previous years carry over up and did well retained a couple bins of high protein just in case and it turns out my protein is all above 13.5 so ill make a decision on whether to keep some again based on spreads in the winter and spring.

Now all this only works if you can cash flow until these sales. Wont tell you if I can or cant just saying take a look at the options As an aside you'd find basis levels may be wide now for that dec 18 but normally I get a chance a a decent basis in the spring.
Last edited by mcfarms; Nov 2, 2017 at 17:12.
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Nov 2, 2017 | 17:46 83
Quote Originally Posted by bucket View Post
For two commodities like corn and soybeans that don't have eight different classes and protein spreads to worry about .....you are right using futures for soybeans and corn probably makes sense....


Fora thinly traded commodity like canola and now no wheat durum or barley markets in Canada it's not the case. ....even American farmers talk about mpls as one to stay away from....

Now start talking about peas lentils flax and a commodity exchange. .....where are they? Peas and flax disappeared what 20 years ago.....


It's all noise.....
often theres more risk in wheat basis than futures. lets say you presell 1hrs135 new crop,and then harvest 3hrs12.5 with 3% fusarium some midge damage, etc. your original basis could end up getting adjusted by more than the change in futures. how do you hedge against basis change? cash index futures don't trade anymore. furthermore, had you not presold that grain, chances are you could sell it direct to a feed user for more than the grainco ends up paying you for that 3hrs wheat. kinger sounds like one of those grainco guys who don't understand the complexities of marketing and hedging from the production side. Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2017 | 17:56 84
Quote Originally Posted by MBgrower View Post
often theres more risk in wheat basis than futures. lets say you presell 1hrs135 new crop,and then harvest 3hrs12.5 with 3% fusarium some midge damage, etc. your original basis could end up getting adjusted by more than the change in futures. how do you hedge against basis change? cash index futures don't trade anymore. furthermore, had you not presold that grain, chances are you could sell it direct to a feed user for more than the grainco ends up paying you for that 3hrs wheat. kinger sounds like one of those grainco guys who don't understand the complexities of marketing and hedging from the production side.
Or the insane risk we face every year Reply With Quote
farmaholic's Avatar Nov 2, 2017 | 18:18 85
Quote Originally Posted by caseih View Post
Or the insane risk we face every year
Ah fuck....what's a bit more risk for us to help ease theirs?....Just sell it and take a position....don't worry about the futures or option and rolling costs! It's the least we could do... Reply With Quote
Blaithin's Avatar Nov 2, 2017 | 19:20 86
Quote Originally Posted by farmaholic View Post
Blaithin, maybe Producer's are paying for the "Sellers" inability(penalty) to fulfill THEIR contract specs with their buyers?
I think that can be a fairly accurate assumption.

I don't know if I would call it a penalty. Farmers sell contracts based on what they think/hope they might harvest, Grain co's do the same. Try and take advantage of the futures market and it doesn't always work out. This year, the protien is kicking everyone in the ass.

It needs to be remembered that Grain Co's are the middle men. They have just as much potential of being stuck with a commodity that they can't make a profit on or sell if they aren't careful. So they're very careful. They're lucky in the fact they have farmers as a buffer against Mother Nature and the risks she carries. Does that mean they're screwing over the farmer because they won't buy the product the farmer has, despite it's specs not being anything they could sell? They wouldn't be in business very long if they plugged up all their terminals with off spec grains they don't have sales for, just because that's what was around in their area. Right now they have sales for higher protien and the majority harvested is looking to be lower protien. They don't need low protien, so aren't offering to pay anything for it; They do need high protien and that's in smaller quanities, so the premiums for it are high. It can be sickening, the gaps between the protiens especially, but it does make sense from the supply and demand perspective.

Does anyone here have 15.0+ px and feel like they're being hosed by Grain Co's? Or is it just the people that don't have the protien that feel they're getting shafted. Reply With Quote
blackpowder's Avatar Nov 2, 2017 | 19:33 87 Or just sell it in June for Sept delivery at >$8 like this year. Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2017 | 19:45 88 I think we did have coops. They were called the wheat pools. We gave them away for free. Hoodwinked! Reply With Quote
farmaholic's Avatar Nov 2, 2017 | 19:54 89 Aaaahhhhh yes.....the perils of selling something you may not have or be able to get! Producing something in an environment that doesn't provide consistent predictable results.......we aren't manufacturing widgets in a factory. My God!

.....and there's enough grading specs and tolerances that need to be met that there's always "something wrong". Quite the arsenal of ammunition to beat something down with.... Reply With Quote
GDR
Nov 2, 2017 | 19:55 90 Most of you guys seem to miss the whole point of free market that you have asked for. Name of the game is make as many dollars as you can. Same applies to grain companies input dealers machinery dealers and of course farmers. Don't know how any self employed business people can argue with that. Asside from collusion or price fixing good for the grain cos to make a buck.

I personally like the marketing end of things, don't always do it right but can be quite the rush sometimes. Reply With Quote