FOS denied a display booth at Crop Production show in Saskatoon

[bob4choice]

I believe this is highly irregular on the part of the organizers. I am not a member, but will look at membership more closely now. What are these Crop Production Show people afraid of anyway? Is information that dangerous? Without a profit Crop Production is futile! FOS's only goal is getting farmers a profit using legitimate tools already available.

Check FOS out for yourself at http://www.focusonsabbatical.com/index.html

Any comments?

[TOM4CWB]

bob4choice,

Focus on Sabatical is an interesting idea, but...

I believe it is unfair to systematically use the produce we grow to blackmail our consumers into paying more...

In the end, the 800 million people who do not have enough to eat each day will pay the greatest price, probably their own lives.

I feel a moral obligation to grow food and promote a healthy sustainable environment, and in my situation fallowing land does not bring me closer to these objectives.

I believe it is healthy to discuss this subject, and I agree that by refusing to do so will attract attention to the idea.

Therefore I must agree that allowing a booth would be appropriate and reasonable...

Was FOS discriminated against intentionally, or were there other circumstances that allowed this situation to ocurr?

What is the other side of the story from the organisers point of view?

[wedino]

Bob, I'm thinking that all trade show booths are sold out. A friend tried to enter trade show, with his "Sample & Seal Bags" & was denied due to no room available.

[bob4choice]

wedino,

According to their web site this has happened before. Therefore I doubt that they were late in their request for a booth. Maybe they can enlighten us on the details.

TOM4CWB,

I agree that farmers shouldn't blackmail the rest of the world to get higher prices. I'm not sure that this is quite the same case though.

I think it might be possible that agriculture has reached the stage where the industry can overproduce at will, much like the manufacturing industry can make almost unlimited copies of any item. The cause of this is the much improved technology we have, huge new tracts of land being developed in Brazil and the ongoing subsidies being paid to many farmers throughout the world.

I'm not saying that FOS has the right idea, but maybe we should at least look at what they are saying.

In my mind, we have a moral obligation to protect the industry's long term survival. The world's people are directly dependent on our survival. As long as the agriculture industry uses ONLY VOLUNTARY methods to try and match production with usage, isn't that preferable to the current coercive methods that many governments are already using to try and protect their farmers at the expense of farmers in less wealthy countries like Canada, Argentina, Brazil, Australia, Third World Nations, etc?

[ianben]

Bob don't leave out farmers in the US or Europe. We all need higher prices.

Toms idea that low grain prices feed hungry people is the exact opposite of what happens in reality in my view.

Countries like Argentia and Brazil with huge dollar debts MUST export ag products to get dollars.

The lower the price the more they export leaving hunger at home. Creating a vicious spiral of ever lower prices. Food surpluses in first world countries where people could afford to pay more for food. Hunger and poverty in the third.

Farmers everywhere strugling to survive.

Anyway of breaking this spiral gets my vote.

FOS could be the way all it needs is everybodys support.

I am sure there are other ways too. One which got the food to the hungry would be better.

Could our income taxes be used to pay those $ debts and make 1st world citizens pay a realistic percentage of their income on food.

Is it Tuesday the average Canadian pays the farmers part of his 02 food bill?

[TOM4CWB]

Social Justice;

I believe this is what is being discussed on this topic.

Socialism is an interesting subject, who exactly is a socialist?

I believe in sharing and helping the poor, am required to be non-judgemental, and know it is only right to expect to eat if you work.

I also believe that I have an obligation to respect my neighbour, and my neighbours property, and not to hurt this person but help them when they ask for help from me.

Now how do we balance all this in the system we work in today?

With 90% of the world population less fortunate than we are, how much right do we actually have to even complain, when we are among the most wealthy in the world?

[ianben]

If the system is hurting us and the poor don't we have a duty to find a better way.
Call it what you like but admit low prices do not help poor countries or hungry people.

[cowman]

Am I my brothers keeper? Yes I am! But if I'm broke because I can't afford to operate then who can I help? I believe low prices only drive more people into a position where they can't help anyone. FOS is in reality only trying to do what every other industry does...matching the supply to the demand. If it is a noble thing to feed the poor then the cost should be shared by everyone, not just the grain farmer. What is to stop the governments of the world from buying up all the extra production and giving it to the starving? Everyone would share in the giving with a few extra tax dollars. Is this such an evil idea? Is this "socialism"? Is it better to see people starve?

[Steve]

Cowman: I can’t believe that you made a 180 degrees turn on the way you think farmers and world Governments should do to rectify the surplus of grain and low prices.

Please read your moments you wrote to me on Today’s Farmer Dec 9th .

I like your comments on this thread better.

[cowman]

Oops! You caught me Steve! Maybe I was having a bad day on Dec. 9! I guess I would like to believe in an ideal world we could actually help our fellow man but sometimes reality is a little too hard to turn a blind eye to. Still the idea of feeding the poor is a good one. Sometimes a person can become a little too pessimistic!

[Steve]

The Focus on Sabbatical idea I only agree in the part that farmers should work together, but their concept on how to increase the price of grain is out to lunch.

It will never get off the ground and collapse when the paid fees of $250.00 are used up on travel expenses by the organizers.

The organizers are fulfilling their dreams and traveling around the world on your money.

This is not any different than a PYRAMID setup and they are trying to tell you look at the forest because there is no need to see the trees.

I don’t believe that there is a real big surplus of food because nature is controlling that, but our problem is that the hungry have no money to pay the price we need to stay in business, and the rich are reluctant to part with theirs to feed the hungry.

The FOS idea may look good to some on paper but would be a disaster if it was ever implemented and this is why.

Just think if all farmers in the world cut production to the extent that FOS proposed, also weather disasters took the same route?

The FOS idea may tell the world that the farmer needs more money for their products, but at the same time bankrupt most of the farmers and the poor will eat less because there will be a real shortage of food.

So the problem becomes bigger, because only the rich could afford to eat and the hungry still have no money to buy.

This could start a bad chain reaction in the processing plants that would take years to repair.

I still think if you can’t sell it at a reasonable price then store it, for next year’s sales

[TOM4CWB]

Novel Ideas;

The questions being asked and discussed on this thread are the questions civilised societies for milleniums have asked!

It is obvious the answers are personal decisions each one of us make personally to make our world a kinder gentler place to live in!

Since all of us are the "government" then it is we that must carry out a plan to create a civilisation of respect, creativity, harmony, hope, and caring love.

Now how do we bring this back to growing grain on the partched prairies in 2002?

I believe each of us are personally responsible to do the part that we can do, sharing the lives we have been given in a positive manner, and standing against greed, tyrany, dishonesty, and discrimination/hatred and the abuse/exploitation of humanity and this special planet we have been given and are honoured to live upon!

I sure have a big new years resolution to live up to, don't I?

Are we up to the challenge, will we respect and love our neighbours in 2002???

[cowman]

Steve: When auto sales are down what does General Motors do? Do they store their cars in Oshawa? Do they cut prices? What does OPEC do when prices fall? They cut production, just like GM! Now I don't say I have any idea behind what the organizers Of FOS have in the way of morals or motives or whatever, but isn't that what they are proposing? Cut production? And with the laws of supply and demand wouldn't this work?
I guess in the really big picture this wouldn't really solve the problem of world hunger but it would put some cash into our pockets. And maybe then we could be in a position where we could help the needy? I guess what the bottom line is...how can we help others when we are broke? You have to realize we need all segments of society to contribute.
TOM 4 CWB: You've got it right!

[ianben]

I must admit the FOS idea would not be my pefered solution and I don't think it could ever be got to work in practice.

Now the grow and store idea of Steves,I believe could be hammered into a workable solution if we all had the confidence that prices were stable.

Pity confidence doesn't come in cans.

Higher prices here, more food left in third world countries with people able to afford to buy it is all it would take

Charity is a hard thing to accept.
Lets find away to to reward people their work. We must not give them food but the money to pay for it.

Find a way to reduce those dollar debts
Carbon credits call them what you like but dont ruin their markets by giving food.

[fosman]

Hi Bob
Thanks for the heads up on this thread. Yes FOS did apply for a both in plenty of time and both times we applied we got a letter stating that the idea our group is promoting does not fit the criteria of the show.
There has been some excellent discussion on our group and goals and I would like to respond to some of it. As "Cowman" has said, no industry can survive producing full out indefinitely. Supply and demand rules every other industry, but somehow farmers think that they are exempt. In every other industry, when the market says by low prices or lack of sales, "you are producing too much", the industry or producer listens to those market signals and curbs production. But every farmer knows that if he cuts back his own production it will make no difference in the big picture. That is the reason for FOS's existence - to give farmers the ability to corporately listen to and respond to market signals to keep their farms and industry viable.
FOS is a very reasonable plan having farmers in at least 5 major exporting nations cut their production by 1/3 for one year for a total of approximately 8 billion bushels. This scale is important - it must be big enough to affect price for 2 years (including the previous year) yet not so big as to adversely affect consumers. We are concerned with the poor, but as someone has said low prices don't help the poor. Our research out of poorer countries actually shows that higher prices would greatly benefit their farmers and their economies.
We believe that you must cut production because increased prices do two things: curb consumption and increase production. If you just withhold selling to increase price you will cause these things to happen as well - only you will have a huge inventory to dispose of and when you do, you will push prices even lower than they were. (eg. Brazil with coffee, Australia with wool, NFO's holdbacks)
We certainly appreciate input and even criticism with this organization. We just hope that farmers get all the facts before you pass judgement.