• You will need to login or register before you can post a message. If you already have an Agriville account login by clicking the login icon on the top right corner of the page. If you are a new user you will need to Register.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Record cheap electricity is transforming world energy markets as Canada struggles to

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    Originally posted by sumdumguy View Post
    Exactly, maybe I would do it to get all the free government money up-front, then come the hic-cups.
    Exactly what I was thinking. If it sounds too good to be true. No different than Tesla pouring through billions of other people’s money pushing off release dates of tangible products because of problems. Eventually the truth gets out but at who’s expense. I understand this tech is in its infancy and eventually will prove reliable and practical. However, now it is not and pushing it on consumers will come with many unintended consequences.

    Comment


      #17
      https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/oct/15/australias-household-power-prices-rose-63-in-past-decade-says-watchdog
      Australia's household power prices rose 63% in past decade, says watchdog

      The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission says lack of competition is behind ‘severe electricity affordability problem’

      The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission report said higher network costs were responsible for 48% of household electricity bills. Photograph: Joe Castro/AAP


      Katharine Murphy Political editor
      @murpharoo

      Sunday 15 October 2017 18.00 BST
      Last modified on Monday 16 October 2017 02.46 BST

      Residential electricity prices have increased by 63% on top of inflation over the past decade, according to Australia’s competition watchdog, mainly due to higher network costs, which comprise 48% of a household bill.

      An interim snapshot, to be released by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission on Monday ahead of the expected unveiling of the Turnbull government’s new energy policy this week, found there was a “severe electricity affordability problem across the national electricity market, and the price increases over the past 10 years are putting Australian businesses and consumers under unacceptable pressure”.

      It noted that “large increases in electricity prices have not been matched by price increases in other areas of the economy, nor in wage growth” and it said the burden of higher electricity prices “disproportionally affects those segments of society least able to afford it”.

      The report pointed to the 63% increase over the past 10 years, and it broke down the components of a residential power bill of $1,524.

      It said 48% of that bill was network costs, 22% wholesale costs, 16% retail and other costs, and 8% retail margins. Green schemes, which have been the focus of most public attention in recent times, made up only 7%.

      In an effort to identify the underlying factors driving increases in power prices, the ACCC pointed predominantly to a lack of competition, with the power-generation market highly concentrated, and with substantial levels of vertical integration between generation and retailing.

      It said the big power generators – AGL, Origin and EnergyAustralia – continued to hold large retail market shares in most regions, and control in excess of 60% of generation capacity in New South Wales, South Australia and Victoria “making it difficult for smaller retailers to compete”.

      It said the current lack of competition in the market raises “real concerns”, because the national electricity market was predicated on competitive markets.
      Sign up for Guardian Today Australian edition: the stories you need to read, in one handy email
      Read more

      It said electricity network operators had been able to overinvest in poles and wires as a result of the suboptimal network regulation framework, and that behaviour would continue to burden consumers “for decades to come”.

      While pointing the finger squarely at anti-competitive market behaviour by power companies as the principle driver of higher power prices, the ACCC also noted there was uncertainty in Australia’s electricity sector, with a trend of “insufficient investment”.

      The competition watchdog noted that ageing coal assets leaving the system were not being replaced by sufficient new capacity.

      It said 5,000 MW of generation capacity had left the national electricity market in the last five years. An additional 2,000 MW had come on stream, with 92% of that renewable generation – leaving a net decline in capacity of more than 3000 MW.

      Prior to 2016–17, all regions in the national electricity market had a surplus of electricity generation capacity, but the supply/demand balance had shifted because of reduction in generation capacity, with old coal plants leaving the system, and an uptick in demand.
      Advertisement

      Australia’s energy sector and many business groups argue that policy uncertainty caused by a decade of toxic political debate on climate and energy policy is one of the factors driving up power prices, because the lack of settled policy makes it difficult to make future investment decisions.

      While the ACCC pointed the finger back at the anti-competitive market behaviour of generators and retailers currently making the complaints about the destructive impact of policy uncertainty, it does accept some of the uncertainty argument.

      It noted the Turnbull government’s as-yet unresolved position on the clean energy target recommended by the chief scientist Alan Finkel. The ACCC also pointed to the fact the Australian Energy Market Operator had reported power generation proposals comprising 23,000 MW “which suggests additional capacity is ready to be developed given the right conditions”.

      The report found that Queenslanders would be paying the most for their electricity this year, followed by South Australians and people living in NSW, while Victorians would have the lowest electricity bills.

      On the power price impact of green schemes, the ACCC noted that subsidies aimed at achieving sustainability objectives “have also increased costs and created cross-subsidies”.

      It noted that the costs of policies like the feed-in tariffs adopted by some states for solar photovoltaics have been “passed through to all electricity users.”

      “Some measures to improve environmental sustainability have been overly generous and poorly targeted, with outcomes that appear inequitable, the report said.

      The ACCC chairman, Rod Sims, said ahead of the release of Monday’s report there was currently to much “ill-informed commentary about the drivers of Australia’s electricity affordability problem”.

      Sims warned there was no prospect of governments being able to land on a fix unless there was a clear understanding of the underlying issues.

      The treasurer, Scott Morrison, said a final report from the ACCC, expected in coming months, would help to “further drive action from the Turnbull government in order to secure more affordable and reliable energy for Australian households and businesses”.
      Analysis 'All eyes on the high court': why the Coalition is preparing for the worst
      After three days of hearings, confidence is waning that government MPs will survive the challenge to their election
      Read more

      “Ensuring we keep the lights on and that the prices Australian families pay for energy are affordable is central to the Turnbull government’s approach to energy policy.”

      The government is expected to put its new energy policy to cabinet and the Coalition party room this week, after spending the past few weeks playing down expectations it will adopt the clean energy target modelled in the Finkel review.

      The clean energy target has been opposed from the outset by Tony Abbott and a small group of conservatives within the Coalition party room, including the Nationals MP George Christensen, who has said several times he won’t vote for it.

      The government’s policy is expected to include comprehensively overhauling the national electricity market rules to ensure more dispatachable energy is made available to the market to make the system more reliable, and it is also understood to include measures to lower greenhouse gas emissions.

      Labor warned the government on Sunday not to ditch Finkel’s clean energy target. The shadow climate change minister, Mark Butler, said the loss of the clean energy target meant there was little prospect of bipartisan agreement on energy policy between the major parties.

      Butler declared if the prime minister dumped the clean energy target, “then he won’t get the support of the Labor party”.

      Comment


        #18
        Mallee the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission said in the above article that "green schemes" were only responsible for 7% of the cost of electricity in Australia. The biggest cost they say is "lack of competition and substantial levels of vertical integration between generation and retailing".

        It looks like your biggest problem is excess profit taking and bad planning.

        They also mention all the instability caused by politics and changing plans.

        Whats your take?

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by chuckChuck View Post

          Whats your take?
          My take is this Chuck2 if solar and batteries are so cheap and transmission costs are what make my electricity so expensive why would it take $150000 to build a stand alone solar system with batteries so I could go off grid when I pay $3800 per year for power now?

          Comment


            #20
            One other thought you constantly talk about Germany and what a green energy success story it is and it is the third most expensive for power on Maillie's graph!!!!

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by chuckChuck View Post
              Mallee the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission said in the above article that "green schemes" were only responsible for 7% of the cost of electricity in Australia. The biggest cost they say is "lack of competition and substantial levels of vertical integration between generation and retailing".

              It looks like your biggest problem is excess profit taking and bad planning.

              They also mention all the instability caused by politics and changing plans.

              Whats your take?
              Bit of everything chuck as per the graph i put up we have most expensive power in the world in SA.
              We have abundance of coal and uranium.
              We have a abundance of sunshine.
              We have abundance of wind surely somehow with combination of all we can get reliable cheaper power but doubt it.

              Comment


                #22
                You really lead a sheltered life Chucky.
                You need to go to the source to find out the REAL story on some of these things.

                Here let me help you.

                [URL="http://joannenova.com.au/"]http://joannenova.com.au/[/URL]

                Her amusing writings will set you straight about what has really happened in Australia's green energy world.
                And why Mallee's graph shows their outrageous electrical prices.

                I really liked her story on the fact that the Aussy BOM (Bureau of Meteorology) installed new smart meters in their weather stations.
                Sharp eyed weather people recently noticed that an actual low temp readings they saw themselves were not showing up in the official data sheets.
                Turns out that these smart meters were apparently set to round temps up.

                And the BOM has been using these meters for over 10 YEARS. Now that's man-made global warming.

                Outraged people are demanding answers and an audit of the BOM but the crooked buggers have so far refused to do it.

                Enjoy

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by RWT101 View Post
                  You really lead a sheltered life Chucky.
                  You need to go to the source to find out the REAL story on some of these things.

                  Here let me help you.

                  [URL="http://joannenova.com.au/"]http://joannenova.com.au/[/URL]

                  Her amusing writings will set you straight about what has really happened in Australia's green energy world.
                  And why Mallee's graph shows their outrageous electrical prices.

                  I really liked her story on the fact that the Aussy BOM (Bureau of Meteorology) installed new smart meters in their weather stations.
                  Sharp eyed weather people recently noticed that an actual low temp readings they saw themselves were not showing up in the official data sheets.
                  Turns out that these smart meters were apparently set to round temps up.

                  And the BOM has been using these meters for over 10 YEARS. Now that's man-made global warming.

                  Outraged people are demanding answers and an audit of the BOM but the crooked buggers have so far refused to do it.

                  Enjoy

                  That just backs up the fact that their, "global warming" is computer generated. These "scientists" should be lined up.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Really, 1.7 cents. It does not take a lot of number crunching to realize that no new, stand-alone electrical generation will be started up at that price, let alone be profitable. And as was mentioned, come with battery backup? Hmmm...

                    Also, where is the cost of back up supply included? For every KW of "renewable" energy, there must be 100% back up available. Or more batteries...

                    To try to say otherwise is merely more denial of easily available data, mathematics/facts.

                    Something is rotten in the State of Denmark.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by malleefarmer View Post
                      Bit of everything chuck as per the graph i put up we have most expensive power in the world in SA.
                      We have abundance of coal and uranium.
                      We have a abundance of sunshine.
                      We have abundance of wind surely somehow with combination of all we can get reliable cheaper power but doubt it.
                      Looks like your high prices have more to do with lack of competition and little to do with green power. I know most of the geniuses on this site will blame green power no matter what the facts are but the reality is green power is becoming a cheaper and better option. We will still need base loads from other sources but if battery technology improves and becomes cheaper, solar will become a much bigger source of generation.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Hamloc View Post
                        My take is this Chuck2 if solar and batteries are so cheap and transmission costs are what make my electricity so expensive why would it take $150000 to build a stand alone solar system with batteries so I could go off grid when I pay $3800 per year for power now?
                        Costs for panels are substantially higher in canada because of import tarrifs to protect Canadian manufacturers. You are also comparing utility sized installations with smaller installations so the costs per kw go up. Batteries are currently expensive and a much better option is grid tied where no batteries are needed.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by burnt View Post
                          Really, 1.7 cents. It does not take a lot of number crunching to realize that no new, stand-alone electrical generation will be started up at that price, let alone be profitable. And as was mentioned, come with battery backup? Hmmm...

                          Also, where is the cost of back up supply included? For every KW of "renewable" energy, there must be 100% back up available. Or more batteries...

                          To try to say otherwise is merely more denial of easily available data, mathematics/facts.

                          Something is rotten in the State of Denmark.
                          So why are you making the assumption that 1.7 cents per kwh generation costs from solar is not profitable if it can be sold for say 10 cents? Are you opposed to finding cheaper sources of electricity generation? Are you opposed to profit? What's your point?

                          Backup is required and already exists. In Mexico with its sunny warm climate electricity usage peaks during the work day when typically the sun is shining. On cloudy days the existing system will have to put out more generation. Solar is one option for building new capacity at a low cost. There may be a limit to how much solar can be relied on, but if battery technology is improved then the sky may be the limit especially in developing countries.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            The people in power of real wealth are playing on the emotional weakness of their electorate . It’s our fault the climate is collapsing next year , the oceans are going to swallow up all coastal cities, the extreme weather hurricanes are going to wipe us all out blah , blah blah ..... to pay for what ? ??? They can’t get any more money out of the 2 billion people that have no money at all so let’s play a guilt trip on every one else and take all their wealth .... it’s a play to secure their future..... not yours . Those that are hard core on this climate change scam have been hypnotized completely.
                            It’s no different than those that fall into a cult belief for someone else’s benefit.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by furrowtickler View Post
                              The people in power of real wealth are playing on the emotional weakness of their electorate . It’s our fault the climate is collapsing next year , the oceans are going to swallow up all coastal cities, the extreme weather hurricanes are going to wipe us all out blah , blah blah ..... to pay for what ? ??? They can’t get any more money out of the 2 billion people that have no money at all so let’s play a guilt trip on every one else and take all their wealth .... it’s a play to secure their future..... not yours . Those that are hard core on this climate change scam have been hypnotized completely.
                              It’s no different than those that fall into a cult belief for someone else’s benefit.
                              Those that are naive are called naifs.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by chuckChuck View Post
                                Costs for panels are substantially higher in canada because of import tarrifs to protect Canadian manufacturers. You are also comparing utility sized installations with smaller installations so the costs per kw go up. Batteries are currently expensive and a much better option is grid tied where no batteries are needed.
                                So, when you quote cheap prices for solar it can't happen here because of tariffs on solar panels to protect Canadian producers. So your consistent preaching of the price of solar coming down isn't going to happen in Canada. As for a grid tie yes it is much cheaper without batteries but roughly 65% of my electricity bill is transmission and administrative charges not power consumption.

                                Comment

                                • Reply to this Thread
                                • Return to Topic List
                                Working...
                                X

                                This website uses tracking tools, including cookies. We use these technologies for a variety of reasons, including to recognize new and past website users, to customize your experience, perform analytics and deliver personalized advertising on our sites, apps and newsletters and across the Internet based on your interests.
                                You agree to our and by clicking I agree.